Top Scientists Ask Medical Journal Science To Retract Original AIDS Papers

[JOHN]

Press Release

December 9, 2008

Top Scientists Ask Medical Journal Science To Retract Original AIDS Papers

[see: [2008 Dec] Letter To: Bruce Alberts, Editor in Chief, Science]

SAN FRANCISCO (Rethinking AIDS) Dec. 9, 2008-The international nonprofit
scientific organization Rethinking AIDS gave its full support today to 37
senior researchers, medical doctors and legal professionals who are
requesting that the medical journal Science withdraw four seminal papers on
HIV authored by Dr. Robert Gallo-papers widely touted as proof that HIV is
the "probable cause of AIDS." An online posting of the letter can be found
here.

"With new findings that undermine the scientific integrity and veracity of
Gallo's four papers, the entire basis of the theory that HIV causes AIDS may
now be questioned," says Rethinking AIDS president David Crowe.

The letter to the journal comes at a time when the microbiology world is
abuzz about Gallo's omission from the 2008 Nobel Prize in medicine for the
discovery of HIV, contrary to an international agreement that the two teams
should share credit. French scientists Drs. Luc Montagnier and Francoise
Barré-Sinoussi are instead to be given the award, a decision that also
implicitly questions the scientific integrity of Gallo's claim of the
discovery. Montagnier, however, admitted on camera more than a decade ago
that his experiments did not purify any virus.

The four papers were originally published on May 4, 1984, a few days after
a press conference by Gallo announcing he had discovered the "probable cause
of AIDS." Now, a British investigative journalist has shown that Gallo's
claim was based on last-minute alterations to documents that make false
claims about the results of his lab work and research experiments. The
letter to Science sent by the 37 experts on Monday, Dec. 1, 2008, includes a
copy of Gallo's handwritten changes to the article, a letter from an
electron microscopy expert indicating that Gallo's samples did not contain
any virus, and a letter from Gallo to a researcher verifying that HIV could
not be purified directly from human materials.

The investigative conclusion prompting the letter to Science was made by
journalist Janine Roberts, author of Fear of the Invisible, a book that
examines the origin of several disease theories. "I was shocked when I read
the original draft of the key scientific paper now widely cited as proving
HIV causes AIDS," says Roberts. "Gallo's handwritten last-minute changes had
reversed what the scientists in his lab had originally concluded. This
demonstrates a stunning disregard for the scientific process and a very
disturbing breach of public trust."

It is clear that the seminal research published on HIV contained
unjustified claims and alterations. In 1993, governmental investigators
determined Gallo had so poorly recorded his key and much-cited experiment
that it was impossible to repeat and verify it.

In the early 1990s, several highly critical reports on the research
underlying Gallo's papers were produced as a result of governmental
inquiries working under the supervision of scientists nominated by the
National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine. The Office of
Research Integrity (ORI) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
concluded that the lead paper of the four was "fraught with false and
erroneous statements" and that the "ORI believes that the careless and
unacceptable keeping of research records . . . reflects irresponsible
laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to retrace
the important steps taken." Further, a Congressional Subcommittee on
Oversight and Investigations produced a staff report on the papers,
containing scathing criticisms of their integrity.

Rethinking AIDS - an international group of more than 2,600 scientists,
doctors, journalists, health advocates and others - offers several eminent
medical and scientific experts to comment on this and other AIDS issues
currently in the news:

Etienne de Harven, M.D.*

Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto

Saint Cézaire, France

Member and professor in cell biology, Sloan Kettering Institute, New York,
1956-1981. Isolated and obtained the first electron microscopic studies of
the murine Friend leukemia virus, and retroviral budding. Frequent critic of
the "isolation" of HIV, and past president of Rethinking AIDS. Dr. de Harven
can comment on the science of retrovirus isolation.

Janine Roberts

Investigative Reporter

Bristol, U.K.

***@fearoftheinvisible.com

Author, Fear of the Invisible, a recent book exposing the fraud in the
drafting of one of the original 1984 Science articles by Robert Gallo.

Web site: www.fearoftheinvisible.com

Media Contacts:

David Crowe*

President, Rethinking AIDS

Calgary, Alberta, Canada (Mountain time zone)

1-403-289-6609 (office)

1-403-861-2225 (mobile)

***@aras.ab.ca

Elizabeth Ely

Public Relations Chairperson

Rethinking AIDS

Brooklyn, N.Y., U.S. (Eastern time zone)

1-718-704-9672 (mobile)

***@rethinkingaids.com

*Rethinking AIDS board member.

Rethinking AIDS: The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS
Hypothesis ("RA" or "the Group") was formed in 1991 to express the concerns
of a growing number of renowned scientists and medical doctors about HIV
research and the resulting human rights abuses. In 1995, by a letter
published in Science, the Group called for a thorough reappraisal of the
existing evidence for and against the HIV/AIDS hypothesis and recommended
that critical epidemiological studies be undertaken.

Among RA's founders and key members are University of Toronto professor
emeritus and former cancer researcher Dr. Etienne de Harven; Harvard
microbiologist Dr. Charles Thomas; 1993 Nobel laureate for chemistry Dr.
Kary Mullis; Nature/Biotechnology co-founder Dr. Harvey Bialy; University of
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg and the late
Yale mathematician Dr. Serge Lang, both members of the National Academy of
Sciences; physicist Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos of the Royal Perth Hospital
in Australia; and Glasgow University professor emeritus of public health and
World Health Organization consultant Dr. Gordon Stewart.

[Citizen Jimserac]

Post by JOHN
Press Release
December 9, 2008
Top Scientists Ask Medical Journal Science To Retract Original AIDS Papers
[see: [2008 Dec] Letter To: Bruce Alberts, Editor in Chief, Science]
 SAN FRANCISCO (Rethinking AIDS) Dec. 9, 2008-The international nonprofit
scientific organization Rethinking AIDS gave its full support today to 37
senior researchers, medical doctors and legal professionals who are
requesting that the medical journal Science withdraw four seminal papers on
HIV authored by Dr. Robert Gallo-papers widely touted as proof that HIV is
the "probable cause of AIDS." An online posting of the letter can be found
here.
 "With new findings that undermine the scientific integrity and veracity of
Gallo's four papers, the entire basis of the theory that HIV causes AIDS may
now be questioned," says Rethinking AIDS president David Crowe.
 The letter to the journal comes at a time when the microbiology world is
abuzz about Gallo's omission from the 2008 Nobel Prize in medicine for the
discovery of HIV, contrary to an international agreement that the two teams
should share credit. French scientists Drs. Luc Montagnier and Francoise
Barré-Sinoussi are instead to be given the award, a decision that also
implicitly questions the scientific integrity of Gallo's claim of the
discovery. Montagnier, however, admitted on camera more than a decade ago
that his experiments did not purify any virus.
 The four papers were originally published on May 4, 1984, a few days after
a press conference by Gallo announcing he had discovered the "probable cause
of AIDS." Now, a British investigative journalist has shown that Gallo's
claim was based on last-minute alterations to documents that make false
claims about the results of his lab work and research experiments. The
letter to Science sent by the 37 experts on Monday, Dec. 1, 2008, includes a
copy of Gallo's handwritten changes to the article, a letter from an
electron microscopy expert indicating that Gallo's samples did not contain
any virus, and a letter from Gallo to a researcher verifying that HIV could
not be purified directly from human materials.
 The investigative conclusion prompting the letter to Science was made by
journalist Janine Roberts, author of Fear of the Invisible, a book that
examines the origin of several disease theories. "I was shocked when I read
the original draft of the key scientific paper now widely cited as proving
HIV causes AIDS," says Roberts. "Gallo's handwritten last-minute changes had
reversed what the scientists in his lab had originally concluded. This
demonstrates a stunning disregard for the scientific process and a very
disturbing breach of public trust."
 It is clear that the seminal research published on HIV contained
unjustified claims and alterations. In 1993, governmental investigators
determined Gallo had so poorly recorded his key and much-cited experiment
that it was impossible to repeat and verify it.
 In the early 1990s, several highly critical reports on the research
underlying Gallo's papers were produced as a result of governmental
inquiries working under the supervision of scientists nominated by the
National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine. The Office of
Research Integrity (ORI) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
concluded that the lead paper of the four was "fraught with false and
erroneous statements" and that the "ORI believes that the careless and
unacceptable keeping of research records . . . reflects irresponsible
laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to retrace
the important steps taken." Further, a Congressional Subcommittee on
Oversight and Investigations produced a staff report on the papers,
containing scathing criticisms of their integrity.
 Rethinking AIDS - an international group of more than 2,600 scientists,
doctors, journalists, health advocates and others - offers several eminent
medical and scientific experts to comment on this and other AIDS issues
 Etienne de Harven, M.D.*
Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto
Saint Cézaire, France
Member and professor in cell biology, Sloan Kettering Institute, New York,
1956-1981. Isolated and obtained the first electron microscopic studies of
the murine Friend leukemia virus, and retroviral budding. Frequent critic of
the "isolation" of HIV, and past president of Rethinking AIDS. Dr. de Harven
can comment on the science of retrovirus isolation.
 Janine Roberts
Investigative Reporter
Bristol, U.K.
Author, Fear of the Invisible, a recent book exposing the fraud in the
drafting of one of the original 1984 Science articles by Robert Gallo.
Web site:www.fearoftheinvisible.com
 David Crowe*
President, Rethinking AIDS
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (Mountain time zone)
1-403-289-6609 (office)
1-403-861-2225 (mobile)
 Elizabeth Ely
Public Relations Chairperson
Rethinking AIDS
Brooklyn, N.Y., U.S. (Eastern time zone)
1-718-704-9672 (mobile)
 *Rethinking AIDS board member.
 Rethinking AIDS: The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS
Hypothesis ("RA" or "the Group") was formed in 1991 to express the concerns
of a growing number of renowned scientists and medical doctors about HIV
research and the resulting human rights abuses. In 1995, by a letter
published in Science, the Group called for a thorough reappraisal of the
existing evidence for and against the HIV/AIDS hypothesis and recommended
that critical epidemiological studies be undertaken.
 Among RA's founders and key members are University of Toronto professor
emeritus and former cancer researcher Dr. Etienne de Harven; Harvard
microbiologist Dr. Charles Thomas; 1993 Nobel laureate for chemistry Dr.
Kary Mullis; Nature/Biotechnology co-founder Dr. Harvey Bialy; University of
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg and the late
Yale mathematician Dr. Serge Lang, both members of the National Academy of
Sciences; physicist Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos of the Royal Perth Hospital
in Australia; and Glasgow University professor emeritus of public health and
World Health Organization consultant Dr. Gordon Stewart.

Wow!! BLOCKBUSTER POSTING -> Even Dr. Cary Mullis, the inventor of
PCR is in on this?!!!

That does NOT mean that I agree with any of it, but I will read
it with great interest.

Thanks for posting!

Citizen Jimserac

[d***@insightbb.com]

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by JOHN
Press Release
December 9, 2008
Top Scientists Ask Medical Journal Science To Retract Original AIDS Papers
[see: [2008 Dec] Letter To: Bruce Alberts, Editor in Chief, Science]
 SAN FRANCISCO (Rethinking AIDS) Dec. 9, 2008-The international nonprofit
scientific organization Rethinking AIDS gave its full support today to 37
senior researchers, medical doctors and legal professionals who are
requesting that the medical journal Science withdraw four seminal papers on
HIV authored by Dr. Robert Gallo-papers widely touted as proof that HIV is
the "probable cause of AIDS." An online posting of the letter can be found
here.
 "With new findings that undermine the scientific integrity and veracity of
Gallo's four papers, the entire basis of the theory that HIV causes AIDS may
now be questioned," says Rethinking AIDS president David Crowe.
 The letter to the journal comes at a time when the microbiology world is
abuzz about Gallo's omission from the 2008 Nobel Prize in medicine for the
discovery of HIV, contrary to an international agreement that the two teams
should share credit. French scientists Drs. Luc Montagnier and Francoise
Barré-Sinoussi are instead to be given the award, a decision that also
implicitly questions the scientific integrity of Gallo's claim of the
discovery. Montagnier, however, admitted on camera more than a decade ago
that his experiments did not purify any virus.
 The four papers were originally published on May 4, 1984, a few days after
a press conference by Gallo announcing he had discovered the "probable cause
of AIDS." Now, a British investigative journalist has shown that Gallo's
claim was based on last-minute alterations to documents that make false
claims about the results of his lab work and research experiments. The
letter to Science sent by the 37 experts on Monday, Dec. 1, 2008, includes a
copy of Gallo's handwritten changes to the article, a letter from an
electron microscopy expert indicating that Gallo's samples did not contain
any virus, and a letter from Gallo to a researcher verifying that HIV could
not be purified directly from human materials.
 The investigative conclusion prompting the letter to Science was made by
journalist Janine Roberts, author of Fear of the Invisible, a book that
examines the origin of several disease theories. "I was shocked when I read
the original draft of the key scientific paper now widely cited as proving
HIV causes AIDS," says Roberts. "Gallo's handwritten last-minute changes had
reversed what the scientists in his lab had originally concluded. This
demonstrates a stunning disregard for the scientific process and a very
disturbing breach of public trust."
 It is clear that the seminal research published on HIV contained
unjustified claims and alterations. In 1993, governmental investigators
determined Gallo had so poorly recorded his key and much-cited experiment
that it was impossible to repeat and verify it.
 In the early 1990s, several highly critical reports on the research
underlying Gallo's papers were produced as a result of governmental
inquiries working under the supervision of scientists nominated by the
National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine. The Office of
Research Integrity (ORI) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
concluded that the lead paper of the four was "fraught with false and
erroneous statements" and that the "ORI believes that the careless and
unacceptable keeping of research records . . . reflects irresponsible
laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to retrace
the important steps taken." Further, a Congressional Subcommittee on
Oversight and Investigations produced a staff report on the papers,
containing scathing criticisms of their integrity.
 Rethinking AIDS - an international group of more than 2,600 scientists,
doctors, journalists, health advocates and others - offers several eminent
medical and scientific experts to comment on this and other AIDS issues
 Etienne de Harven, M.D.*
Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto
Saint Cézaire, France
Member and professor in cell biology, Sloan Kettering Institute, New York,
1956-1981. Isolated and obtained the first electron microscopic studies of
the murine Friend leukemia virus, and retroviral budding. Frequent critic of
the "isolation" of HIV, and past president of Rethinking AIDS. Dr. de Harven
can comment on the science of retrovirus isolation.
 Janine Roberts
Investigative Reporter
Bristol, U.K.
Author, Fear of the Invisible, a recent book exposing the fraud in the
drafting of one of the original 1984 Science articles by Robert Gallo.
Web site:www.fearoftheinvisible.com
 David Crowe*
President, Rethinking AIDS
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (Mountain time zone)
1-403-289-6609 (office)
1-403-861-2225 (mobile)
 Elizabeth Ely
Public Relations Chairperson
Rethinking AIDS
Brooklyn, N.Y., U.S. (Eastern time zone)
1-718-704-9672 (mobile)
 *Rethinking AIDS board member.
 Rethinking AIDS: The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS
Hypothesis ("RA" or "the Group") was formed in 1991 to express the concerns
of a growing number of renowned scientists and medical doctors about HIV
research and the resulting human rights abuses. In 1995, by a letter
published in Science, the Group called for a thorough reappraisal of the
existing evidence for and against the HIV/AIDS hypothesis and recommended
that critical epidemiological studies be undertaken.
 Among RA's founders and key members are University of Toronto professor
emeritus and former cancer researcher Dr. Etienne de Harven; Harvard
microbiologist Dr. Charles Thomas; 1993 Nobel laureate for chemistry Dr.
Kary Mullis; Nature/Biotechnology co-founder Dr. Harvey Bialy; University of
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg and the late
Yale mathematician Dr. Serge Lang, both members of the National Academy of
Sciences; physicist Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos of the Royal Perth Hospital
in Australia; and Glasgow University professor emeritus of public health and
World Health Organization consultant Dr. Gordon Stewart.

Wow!! BLOCKBUSTER POSTING -> Even Dr. Cary Mullis, the inventor of
PCR is in on this?!!!
That does NOT mean that I agree with any of it, but I will read
it with great interest.
Thanks for posting!
Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Uhh, Citizen, I think you will find that Mullis' name is Kary with a
K.

Secondly, how many times must you be told something before you can
open your mind and accept it?

Again, go to Gary Null. Google Video. "Deconstructing the myth of
AIDS."

The germ theory of disease is false.
Bacteria are not here lying in wait to make you sick.
A virus is an excuse for the doc that he has no bacteria to blame your
illness upon.
The auto-immune disease is an admission of inability and ignorance.
AIDS is a hoax.
Bird flu is a joke.

DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

[Citizen Jimserac]

Post by d***@insightbb.com

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by JOHN
Press Release
December 9, 2008
Top Scientists Ask Medical Journal Science To Retract Original AIDS Papers
[see: [2008 Dec] Letter To: Bruce Alberts, Editor in Chief, Science]
 SAN FRANCISCO (Rethinking AIDS) Dec. 9, 2008-The international nonprofit
scientific organization Rethinking AIDS gave its full support today to 37
senior researchers, medical doctors and legal professionals who are
requesting that the medical journal Science withdraw four seminal papers on
HIV authored by Dr. Robert Gallo-papers widely touted as proof that HIV is
the "probable cause of AIDS." An online posting of the letter can be found
here.
 "With new findings that undermine the scientific integrity and veracity of
Gallo's four papers, the entire basis of the theory that HIV causes AIDS may
now be questioned," says Rethinking AIDS president David Crowe.
 The letter to the journal comes at a time when the microbiology world is
abuzz about Gallo's omission from the 2008 Nobel Prize in medicine for the
discovery of HIV, contrary to an international agreement that the two teams
should share credit. French scientists Drs. Luc Montagnier and Francoise
Barré-Sinoussi are instead to be given the award, a decision that also
implicitly questions the scientific integrity of Gallo's claim of the
discovery. Montagnier, however, admitted on camera more than a decade ago
that his experiments did not purify any virus.
 The four papers were originally published on May 4, 1984, a few days after
a press conference by Gallo announcing he had discovered the "probable cause
of AIDS." Now, a British investigative journalist has shown that Gallo's
claim was based on last-minute alterations to documents that make false
claims about the results of his lab work and research experiments. The
letter to Science sent by the 37 experts on Monday, Dec. 1, 2008, includes a
copy of Gallo's handwritten changes to the article, a letter from an
electron microscopy expert indicating that Gallo's samples did not contain
any virus, and a letter from Gallo to a researcher verifying that HIV could
not be purified directly from human materials.
 The investigative conclusion prompting the letter to Science was made by
journalist Janine Roberts, author of Fear of the Invisible, a book that
examines the origin of several disease theories. "I was shocked when I read
the original draft of the key scientific paper now widely cited as proving
HIV causes AIDS," says Roberts. "Gallo's handwritten last-minute changes had
reversed what the scientists in his lab had originally concluded. This
demonstrates a stunning disregard for the scientific process and a very
disturbing breach of public trust."
 It is clear that the seminal research published on HIV contained
unjustified claims and alterations. In 1993, governmental investigators
determined Gallo had so poorly recorded his key and much-cited experiment
that it was impossible to repeat and verify it.
 In the early 1990s, several highly critical reports on the research
underlying Gallo's papers were produced as a result of governmental
inquiries working under the supervision of scientists nominated by the
National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine. The Office of
Research Integrity (ORI) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
concluded that the lead paper of the four was "fraught with false and
erroneous statements" and that the "ORI believes that the careless and
unacceptable keeping of research records . . . reflects irresponsible
laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to retrace
the important steps taken." Further, a Congressional Subcommittee on
Oversight and Investigations produced a staff report on the papers,
containing scathing criticisms of their integrity.
 Rethinking AIDS - an international group of more than 2,600 scientists,
doctors, journalists, health advocates and others - offers several eminent
medical and scientific experts to comment on this and other AIDS issues
 Etienne de Harven, M.D.*
Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto
Saint Cézaire, France
Member and professor in cell biology, Sloan Kettering Institute, New York,
1956-1981. Isolated and obtained the first electron microscopic studies of
the murine Friend leukemia virus, and retroviral budding. Frequent critic of
the "isolation" of HIV, and past president of Rethinking AIDS. Dr. de Harven
can comment on the science of retrovirus isolation.
 Janine Roberts
Investigative Reporter
Bristol, U.K.
Author, Fear of the Invisible, a recent book exposing the fraud in the
drafting of one of the original 1984 Science articles by Robert Gallo.
Web site:www.fearoftheinvisible.com
 David Crowe*
President, Rethinking AIDS
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (Mountain time zone)
1-403-289-6609 (office)
1-403-861-2225 (mobile)
 Elizabeth Ely
Public Relations Chairperson
Rethinking AIDS
Brooklyn, N.Y., U.S. (Eastern time zone)
1-718-704-9672 (mobile)
 *Rethinking AIDS board member.
 Rethinking AIDS: The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS
Hypothesis ("RA" or "the Group") was formed in 1991 to express the concerns
of a growing number of renowned scientists and medical doctors about HIV
research and the resulting human rights abuses. In 1995, by a letter
published in Science, the Group called for a thorough reappraisal of the
existing evidence for and against the HIV/AIDS hypothesis and recommended
that critical epidemiological studies be undertaken.
 Among RA's founders and key members are University of Toronto professor
emeritus and former cancer researcher Dr. Etienne de Harven; Harvard
microbiologist Dr. Charles Thomas; 1993 Nobel laureate for chemistry Dr.
Kary Mullis; Nature/Biotechnology co-founder Dr. Harvey Bialy; University of
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg and the late
Yale mathematician Dr. Serge Lang, both members of the National Academy of
Sciences; physicist Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos of the Royal Perth Hospital
in Australia; and Glasgow University professor emeritus of public health and
World Health Organization consultant Dr. Gordon Stewart.

Wow!! BLOCKBUSTER POSTING -> Even Dr. Cary Mullis, the inventor of
PCR is in on this?!!!
That does NOT mean that I agree with any of it, but I will read
it with great interest.
Thanks for posting!
CitizenJimserac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Uhh, Citizen, I think you will find that Mullis' name is Kary with a
K.

Look on the bright side, at least I didn't get it backwards
like I did with Dr. Rustum Roy.

Post by d***@insightbb.com
Secondly, how many times must you be told something before you can
open your mind and accept it?

You'll find I'm a pretty stubborn Android.

Post by d***@insightbb.com
Again, go to Gary Null.  Google Video.  "Deconstructing the myth of
AIDS."
The germ theory of disease is false.
Bacteria are not here lying in wait to make you sick.
A virus is an excuse for the doc that he has no bacteria to blame your
illness upon. The auto-immune disease is an admission of inability and ignorance.
AIDS is a hoax.
Bird flu is a joke.
DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

You'll need quite a bit more details than those simple assertions to
convince me, but what I do have, unlike others
around here, is an open mind.

Citizen Jimserac

[d***@insightbb.com]

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by d***@insightbb.com

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by JOHN
Press Release
December 9, 2008
Top Scientists Ask Medical Journal Science To Retract Original AIDS Papers
[see: [2008 Dec] Letter To: Bruce Alberts, Editor in Chief, Science]
 SAN FRANCISCO (Rethinking AIDS) Dec. 9, 2008-The international nonprofit
scientific organization Rethinking AIDS gave its full support today to 37
senior researchers, medical doctors and legal professionals who are
requesting that the medical journal Science withdraw four seminal papers on
HIV authored by Dr. Robert Gallo-papers widely touted as proof that HIV is
the "probable cause of AIDS." An online posting of the letter can be found
here.
 "With new findings that undermine the scientific integrity and veracity of
Gallo's four papers, the entire basis of the theory that HIV causes AIDS may
now be questioned," says Rethinking AIDS president David Crowe.
 The letter to the journal comes at a time when the microbiology world is
abuzz about Gallo's omission from the 2008 Nobel Prize in medicine for the
discovery of HIV, contrary to an international agreement that the two teams
should share credit. French scientists Drs. Luc Montagnier and Francoise
Barré-Sinoussi are instead to be given the award, a decision that also
implicitly questions the scientific integrity of Gallo's claim of the
discovery. Montagnier, however, admitted on camera more than a decade ago
that his experiments did not purify any virus.
 The four papers were originally published on May 4, 1984, a few days after
a press conference by Gallo announcing he had discovered the "probable cause
of AIDS." Now, a British investigative journalist has shown that Gallo's
claim was based on last-minute alterations to documents that make false
claims about the results of his lab work and research experiments. The
letter to Science sent by the 37 experts on Monday, Dec. 1, 2008, includes a
copy of Gallo's handwritten changes to the article, a letter from an
electron microscopy expert indicating that Gallo's samples did not contain
any virus, and a letter from Gallo to a researcher verifying that HIV could
not be purified directly from human materials.
 The investigative conclusion prompting the letter to Science was made by
journalist Janine Roberts, author of Fear of the Invisible, a book that
examines the origin of several disease theories. "I was shocked when I read
the original draft of the key scientific paper now widely cited as proving
HIV causes AIDS," says Roberts. "Gallo's handwritten last-minute changes had
reversed what the scientists in his lab had originally concluded. This
demonstrates a stunning disregard for the scientific process and a very
disturbing breach of public trust."
 It is clear that the seminal research published on HIV contained
unjustified claims and alterations. In 1993, governmental investigators
determined Gallo had so poorly recorded his key and much-cited experiment
that it was impossible to repeat and verify it.
 In the early 1990s, several highly critical reports on the research
underlying Gallo's papers were produced as a result of governmental
inquiries working under the supervision of scientists nominated by the
National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine. The Office of
Research Integrity (ORI) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
concluded that the lead paper of the four was "fraught with false and
erroneous statements" and that the "ORI believes that the careless and
unacceptable keeping of research records . . . reflects irresponsible
laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to retrace
the important steps taken." Further, a Congressional Subcommittee on
Oversight and Investigations produced a staff report on the papers,
containing scathing criticisms of their integrity.
 Rethinking AIDS - an international group of more than 2,600 scientists,
doctors, journalists, health advocates and others - offers several eminent
medical and scientific experts to comment on this and other AIDS issues
 Etienne de Harven, M.D.*
Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto
Saint Cézaire, France
Member and professor in cell biology, Sloan Kettering Institute, New York,
1956-1981. Isolated and obtained the first electron microscopic studies of
the murine Friend leukemia virus, and retroviral budding. Frequent critic of
the "isolation" of HIV, and past president of Rethinking AIDS. Dr. de Harven
can comment on the science of retrovirus isolation.
 Janine Roberts
Investigative Reporter
Bristol, U.K.
Author, Fear of the Invisible, a recent book exposing the fraud in the
drafting of one of the original 1984 Science articles by Robert Gallo.
Web site:www.fearoftheinvisible.com
 David Crowe*
President, Rethinking AIDS
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (Mountain time zone)
1-403-289-6609 (office)
1-403-861-2225 (mobile)
 Elizabeth Ely
Public Relations Chairperson
Rethinking AIDS
Brooklyn, N.Y., U.S. (Eastern time zone)
1-718-704-9672 (mobile)
 *Rethinking AIDS board member.
 Rethinking AIDS: The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS
Hypothesis ("RA" or "the Group") was formed in 1991 to express the concerns
of a growing number of renowned scientists and medical doctors about HIV
research and the resulting human rights abuses. In 1995, by a letter
published in Science, the Group called for a thorough reappraisal of the
existing evidence for and against the HIV/AIDS hypothesis and recommended
that critical epidemiological studies be undertaken.
 Among RA's founders and key members are University of Toronto professor
emeritus and former cancer researcher Dr. Etienne de Harven; Harvard
microbiologist Dr. Charles Thomas; 1993 Nobel laureate for chemistry Dr.
Kary Mullis; Nature/Biotechnology co-founder Dr. Harvey Bialy; University of
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg and the late
Yale mathematician Dr. Serge Lang, both members of the National Academy of
Sciences; physicist Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos of the Royal Perth Hospital
in Australia; and Glasgow University professor emeritus of public health and
World Health Organization consultant Dr. Gordon Stewart.

Wow!! BLOCKBUSTER POSTING -> Even Dr. Cary Mullis, the inventor of
PCR is in on this?!!!
That does NOT mean that I agree with any of it, but I will read
it with great interest.
Thanks for posting!
CitizenJimserac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Uhh, Citizen, I think you will find that Mullis' name is Kary with a
K.

Look on the bright side, at least I didn't get it backwards
like I did with Dr. Rustum Roy.

Post by d***@insightbb.com
Secondly, how many times must you be told something before you can
open your mind and accept it?

You'll find I'm a pretty stubborn Android.

Post by d***@insightbb.com
Again, go to Gary Null.  Google Video.  "Deconstructing the myth of
AIDS."
The germ theory of disease is false.
Bacteria are not here lying in wait to make you sick.
A virus is an excuse for the doc that he has no bacteria to blame your
illness upon.  The auto-immune disease is an admission of inability and ignorance.
AIDS is a hoax.
Bird flu is a joke.
DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

You'll need quite a bit more details than those simple assertions to
convince me, but what I do have, unlike others
around here, is an open mind.
Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

What I am giving you is the distillation, the summary, the absolute
scientific and medical truth. Sorry, but, I cannot confer the data of
tens of years of eductaion and more decades of study and reflection
into one or two sentences.

Keeping an open mind is great. Just fill it with the truth.

DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

[D. C. Sessions]

Post by d***@insightbb.com
What I am giving you is the distillation, the summary, the absolute
scientific and medical truth.  Sorry, but, I cannot confer the data of
tens of years of eductaion and more decades of study and  reflection
into one or two sentences.

Translation: "trust me."

[Mark Probert]

Post by d***@insightbb.com

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by d***@insightbb.com

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by JOHN
Press Release
December 9, 2008
Top Scientists Ask Medical Journal Science To Retract Original AIDS Papers
[see: [2008 Dec] Letter To: Bruce Alberts, Editor in Chief, Science]
 SAN FRANCISCO (Rethinking AIDS) Dec. 9, 2008-The international nonprofit
scientific organization Rethinking AIDS gave its full support today to 37
senior researchers, medical doctors and legal professionals who are
requesting that the medical journal Science withdraw four seminal papers on
HIV authored by Dr. Robert Gallo-papers widely touted as proof that HIV is
the "probable cause of AIDS." An online posting of the letter can be found
here.
 "With new findings that undermine the scientific integrity and veracity of
Gallo's four papers, the entire basis of the theory that HIV causes AIDS may
now be questioned," says Rethinking AIDS president David Crowe.
 The letter to the journal comes at a time when the microbiology world is
abuzz about Gallo's omission from the 2008 Nobel Prize in medicine for the
discovery of HIV, contrary to an international agreement that the two teams
should share credit. French scientists Drs. Luc Montagnier and Francoise
Barré-Sinoussi are instead to be given the award, a decision that also
implicitly questions the scientific integrity of Gallo's claim of the
discovery. Montagnier, however, admitted on camera more than a decade ago
that his experiments did not purify any virus.
 The four papers were originally published on May 4, 1984, a few days after
a press conference by Gallo announcing he had discovered the "probable cause
of AIDS." Now, a British investigative journalist has shown that Gallo's
claim was based on last-minute alterations to documents that make false
claims about the results of his lab work and research experiments. The
letter to Science sent by the 37 experts on Monday, Dec. 1, 2008, includes a
copy of Gallo's handwritten changes to the article, a letter from an
electron microscopy expert indicating that Gallo's samples did not contain
any virus, and a letter from Gallo to a researcher verifying that HIV could
not be purified directly from human materials.
 The investigative conclusion prompting the letter to Science was made by
journalist Janine Roberts, author of Fear of the Invisible, a book that
examines the origin of several disease theories. "I was shocked when I read
the original draft of the key scientific paper now widely cited as proving
HIV causes AIDS," says Roberts. "Gallo's handwritten last-minute changes had
reversed what the scientists in his lab had originally concluded. This
demonstrates a stunning disregard for the scientific process and a very
disturbing breach of public trust."
 It is clear that the seminal research published on HIV contained
unjustified claims and alterations. In 1993, governmental investigators
determined Gallo had so poorly recorded his key and much-cited experiment
that it was impossible to repeat and verify it.
 In the early 1990s, several highly critical reports on the research
underlying Gallo's papers were produced as a result of governmental
inquiries working under the supervision of scientists nominated by the
National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine. The Office of
Research Integrity (ORI) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
concluded that the lead paper of the four was "fraught with false and
erroneous statements" and that the "ORI believes that the careless and
unacceptable keeping of research records . . . reflects irresponsible
laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to retrace
the important steps taken." Further, a Congressional Subcommittee on
Oversight and Investigations produced a staff report on the papers,
containing scathing criticisms of their integrity.
 Rethinking AIDS - an international group of more than 2,600 scientists,
doctors, journalists, health advocates and others - offers several eminent
medical and scientific experts to comment on this and other AIDS issues
 Etienne de Harven, M.D.*
Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto
Saint Cézaire, France
Member and professor in cell biology, Sloan Kettering Institute, New York,
1956-1981. Isolated and obtained the first electron microscopic studies of
the murine Friend leukemia virus, and retroviral budding. Frequent critic of
the "isolation" of HIV, and past president of Rethinking AIDS. Dr. de Harven
can comment on the science of retrovirus isolation.
 Janine Roberts
Investigative Reporter
Bristol, U.K.
Author, Fear of the Invisible, a recent book exposing the fraud in the
drafting of one of the original 1984 Science articles by Robert Gallo.
Web site:www.fearoftheinvisible.com
 David Crowe*
President, Rethinking AIDS
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (Mountain time zone)
1-403-289-6609 (office)
1-403-861-2225 (mobile)
 Elizabeth Ely
Public Relations Chairperson
Rethinking AIDS
Brooklyn, N.Y., U.S. (Eastern time zone)
1-718-704-9672 (mobile)
 *Rethinking AIDS board member.
 Rethinking AIDS: The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS
Hypothesis ("RA" or "the Group") was formed in 1991 to express the concerns
of a growing number of renowned scientists and medical doctors about HIV
research and the resulting human rights abuses. In 1995, by a letter
published in Science, the Group called for a thorough reappraisal of the
existing evidence for and against the HIV/AIDS hypothesis and recommended
that critical epidemiological studies be undertaken.
 Among RA's founders and key members are University of Toronto professor
emeritus and former cancer researcher Dr. Etienne de Harven; Harvard
microbiologist Dr. Charles Thomas; 1993 Nobel laureate for chemistry Dr.
Kary Mullis; Nature/Biotechnology co-founder Dr. Harvey Bialy; University of
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg and the late
Yale mathematician Dr. Serge Lang, both members of the National Academy of
Sciences; physicist Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos of the Royal Perth Hospital
in Australia; and Glasgow University professor emeritus of public health and
World Health Organization consultant Dr. Gordon Stewart.

Wow!! BLOCKBUSTER POSTING -> Even Dr. Cary Mullis, the inventor of
PCR is in on this?!!!
That does NOT mean that I agree with any of it, but I will read
it with great interest.
Thanks for posting!
CitizenJimserac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Uhh, Citizen, I think you will find that Mullis' name is Kary with a
K.

Look on the bright side, at least I didn't get it backwards
like I did with Dr. Rustum Roy.

Post by d***@insightbb.com
Secondly, how many times must you be told something before you can
open your mind and accept it?

You'll find I'm a pretty stubborn Android.

Post by d***@insightbb.com
Again, go to Gary Null.  Google Video.  "Deconstructing the myth of
AIDS."
The germ theory of disease is false.
Bacteria are not here lying in wait to make you sick.
A virus is an excuse for the doc that he has no bacteria to blame your
illness upon.  The auto-immune disease is an admission of inability and ignorance.
AIDS is a hoax.
Bird flu is a joke.
DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

You'll need quite a bit more details than those simple assertions to
convince me, but what I do have, unlike others
around here, is an open mind.
Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

What I am giving you is the distillation, the summary, the absolute
scientific and medical truth.  

At a 100C distillation, it is devoid of any truth.

Sorry, but, I cannot confer the data of

Post by d***@insightbb.com
tens of years of eductaion and more decades of study and  reflection
into one or two sentences.
Keeping an open mind is great.  Just fill it with the truth.
DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[a***@yahoo.com]

Post by Mark Probert

Post by d***@insightbb.com

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by d***@insightbb.com

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by JOHN
Press Release
December 9, 2008
Top Scientists Ask Medical Journal Science To Retract Original AIDS Papers
[see: [2008 Dec] Letter To: Bruce Alberts, Editor in Chief, Science]
 SAN FRANCISCO (Rethinking AIDS) Dec. 9, 2008-The international nonprofit
scientific organization Rethinking AIDS gave its full support today to 37
senior researchers, medical doctors and legal professionals who are
requesting that the medical journal Science withdraw four seminal papers on
HIV authored by Dr. Robert Gallo-papers widely touted as proof that HIV is
the "probable cause of AIDS." An online posting of the letter can be found
here.
 "With new findings that undermine the scientific integrity and veracity of
Gallo's four papers, the entire basis of the theory that HIV causes AIDS may
now be questioned," says Rethinking AIDS president David Crowe.
 The letter to the journal comes at a time when the microbiology world is
abuzz about Gallo's omission from the 2008 Nobel Prize in medicine for the
discovery of HIV, contrary to an international agreement that the two teams
should share credit. French scientists Drs. Luc Montagnier and Francoise
Barré-Sinoussi are instead to be given the award, a decision that also
implicitly questions the scientific integrity of Gallo's claim of the
discovery. Montagnier, however, admitted on camera more than a decade ago
that his experiments did not purify any virus.
 The four papers were originally published on May 4, 1984, a few days after
a press conference by Gallo announcing he had discovered the "probable cause
of AIDS." Now, a British investigative journalist has shown that Gallo's
claim was based on last-minute alterations to documents that make false
claims about the results of his lab work and research experiments. The
letter to Science sent by the 37 experts on Monday, Dec. 1, 2008, includes a
copy of Gallo's handwritten changes to the article, a letter from an
electron microscopy expert indicating that Gallo's samples did not contain
any virus, and a letter from Gallo to a researcher verifying that HIV could
not be purified directly from human materials.
 The investigative conclusion prompting the letter to Science was made by
journalist Janine Roberts, author of Fear of the Invisible, a book that
examines the origin of several disease theories. "I was shocked when I read
the original draft of the key scientific paper now widely cited as proving
HIV causes AIDS," says Roberts. "Gallo's handwritten last-minute changes had
reversed what the scientists in his lab had originally concluded. This
demonstrates a stunning disregard for the scientific process and a very
disturbing breach of public trust."
 It is clear that the seminal research published on HIV contained
unjustified claims and alterations. In 1993, governmental investigators
determined Gallo had so poorly recorded his key and much-cited experiment
that it was impossible to repeat and verify it.
 In the early 1990s, several highly critical reports on the research
underlying Gallo's papers were produced as a result of governmental
inquiries working under the supervision of scientists nominated by the
National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine. The Office of
Research Integrity (ORI) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
concluded that the lead paper of the four was "fraught with false and
erroneous statements" and that the "ORI believes that the careless and
unacceptable keeping of research records . . . reflects irresponsible
laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to retrace
the important steps taken." Further, a Congressional Subcommittee on
Oversight and Investigations produced a staff report on the papers,
containing scathing criticisms of their integrity.
 Rethinking AIDS - an international group of more than 2,600 scientists,
doctors, journalists, health advocates and others - offers several eminent
medical and scientific experts to comment on this and other AIDS issues
 Etienne de Harven, M.D.*
Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto
Saint Cézaire, France
Member and professor in cell biology, Sloan Kettering Institute, New York,
1956-1981. Isolated and obtained the first electron microscopic studies of
the murine Friend leukemia virus, and retroviral budding. Frequent critic of
the "isolation" of HIV, and past president of Rethinking AIDS. Dr. de Harven
can comment on the science of retrovirus isolation.
 Janine Roberts
Investigative Reporter
Bristol, U.K.
Author, Fear of the Invisible, a recent book exposing the fraud in the
drafting of one of the original 1984 Science articles by Robert Gallo.
Web site:www.fearoftheinvisible.com
 David Crowe*
President, Rethinking AIDS
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (Mountain time zone)
1-403-289-6609 (office)
1-403-861-2225 (mobile)
 Elizabeth Ely
Public Relations Chairperson
Rethinking AIDS
Brooklyn, N.Y., U.S. (Eastern time zone)
1-718-704-9672 (mobile)
 *Rethinking AIDS board member.
 Rethinking AIDS: The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS
Hypothesis ("RA" or "the Group") was formed in 1991 to express the concerns
of a growing number of renowned scientists and medical doctors about HIV
research and the resulting human rights abuses. In 1995, by a letter
published in Science, the Group called for a thorough reappraisal of the
existing evidence for and against the HIV/AIDS hypothesis and recommended
that critical epidemiological studies be undertaken.
 Among RA's founders and key members are University of Toronto professor
emeritus and former cancer researcher Dr. Etienne de Harven; Harvard
microbiologist Dr. Charles Thomas; 1993 Nobel laureate for chemistry Dr.
Kary Mullis; Nature/Biotechnology co-founder Dr. Harvey Bialy; University of
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg and the late
Yale mathematician Dr. Serge Lang, both members of the National Academy of
Sciences; physicist Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos of the Royal Perth Hospital
in Australia; and Glasgow University professor emeritus of public health and
World Health Organization consultant Dr. Gordon Stewart.

Wow!! BLOCKBUSTER POSTING -> Even Dr. Cary Mullis, the inventor of
PCR is in on this?!!!
That does NOT mean that I agree with any of it, but I will read
it with great interest.
Thanks for posting!
CitizenJimserac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Uhh, Citizen, I think you will find that Mullis' name is Kary with a
K.

Look on the bright side, at least I didn't get it backwards
like I did with Dr. Rustum Roy.

Post by d***@insightbb.com
Secondly, how many times must you be told something before you can
open your mind and accept it?

You'll find I'm a pretty stubborn Android.

Post by d***@insightbb.com
Again, go to Gary Null.  Google Video.  "Deconstructing the myth of
AIDS."
The germ theory of disease is false.
Bacteria are not here lying in wait to make you sick.
A virus is an excuse for the doc that he has no bacteria to blame your
illness upon.  The auto-immune disease is an admission of inability and ignorance.
AIDS is a hoax.
Bird flu is a joke.
DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

You'll need quite a bit more details than those simple assertions to
convince me, but what I do have, unlike others
around here, is an open mind.
Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

What I am giving you is the distillation, the summary, the absolute
scientific and medical truth.  

At a 100C distillation, it is devoid of any truth.
Sorry, but, I cannot confer the data of

Post by d***@insightbb.com
tens of years of eductaion and more decades of study and  reflection
into one or two sentences.
Keeping an open mind is great.  Just fill it with the truth.
DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

There is nothing wrong with alternative/complementary medicine. Let’s
not confuse alternative medicine with denialism. DrCee commenting here
sounds like a true denialist….saying…

The AIDS "retro-virus" has never been isolated.
The AIDS test is a contrived joke.
Depending upon where you live determines whether or not you will be
pronounced with AIDS. The AIDS diagnosis varies from nation to
nation. The AIDS test in not reproducable. The test is totally
unscientific.

I do not know what the medicine is that DrCee trusts if it is not
based on science…Sounds like Gary Null or Matthias Rath…see www.quackwatch.com
for more info.

These AIDS denialists, like other deniers, are confusing people who
rely on the internet for information. But unlike Holocaust and 9/11
deniers, AIDS denialists have a hand in killing people. We saw that
with the recent work coming out of Harvard showing that AIDS denialism
killed over 350,000 South Africans. Women have been influenced by the
Duesbergians to avoid HIV treatments and subsequently infect their own
babies at birth. This is just one of the real tragedies of denialism.

For more information on AIDS denialism you might check out my new book
Denying AIDS: Conspiracy Theories, Pseudoscience, and Human Tragedy.
All royalties are being donated to buy HIV treatments in Africa. You
can find out more on denialism at my blog Denying AIDS and other
oddities http://denyingaids.blogspot.com

Seth Kalichman

[Andrew Heenan]

It's Christmas already - take off the tin foil hat for day.
Treat yourself.

*plonk*

[Kevysmom]

Dr.Cee,


You don't believe the theory about AIDS coming from chimpanzees in the
Congo? I like Gary Null, But even he can make a mistake.


I agree with you about the avian flu, Rumsfeld sure made his millions
from that hoax!



Please take the time to watch these videos.


THE ORIGIN OF AIDS pt 1

[d***@insightbb.com]

Post by Kevysmom
Dr.Cee,
You don't believe the theory about AIDS coming from chimpanzees in the
Congo? I like Gary Null, But even he can make a mistake.
I agree with you about the avian flu, Rumsfeld sure made his millions
from that hoax!
Please take the time to watch these videos.
THE ORIGIN OF AIDS pt 1
http://youtu.be/Ml7q6iMwqLY

LOL. I have watched all this propaganda and every piece that I can
find related to AIDS being derived from monkeys in Africa. What a
joke.

Gary can make a mistake, but will all the thousands of scientists who
agree with Gary make the same mistake considering that their careers,
their grants, and their reputations will be forfiet?

I will trust in science, not medicine.

The AIDS "retro-virus" has never been isolated.
The AIDS test is a contrived joke.
Depending upon where you live determines whether or not you will be
pronounced with AIDS. The AIDS diagnosis varies from nation to
nation. The AIDS test in not reproducable. The test is totally
unscientific.

The science is in. AIDS is a hoax. A profitable hoax. A beneficial
hoax if you wish to kill millions of people, but still a scientific
and medical hoax.

Next you will have to convince me that mercury in my food, my water,
or in the air is terribly toxic, but...mercury injected into me via a
hypodermic is not toxic but perhaps even...beneficial.

DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

[Mark Probert]

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.

Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.

He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

[Peter Bowditch]

Post by Mark Probert

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.
Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.
He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

I rank AIDS deniers just below anti-vaccination liars on the scale of
evil. It is never a surprise when the groups overlap.

Why do these people have this need to cause the deaths of other
people?

[Citizen Jimserac]

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by Mark Probert

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.
Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.
He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

I rank AIDS deniers just below anti-vaccination liars on the scale of
evil. It is never a surprise when the groups overlap.
Why do these people have this need to cause the deaths of other
people?
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Projecthttp://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraudhttp://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skepticshttp://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Perhaps at the level of an Homeopathy nitwit who thinks
he's refuted all of Homeopathy after reading a few books.

Citizen Jimserac

[Mark Probert]

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by Mark Probert

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.
Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.
He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

I rank AIDS deniers just below anti-vaccination liars on the scale of
evil. It is never a surprise when the groups overlap.
Why do these people have this need to cause the deaths of other
people?
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Projecthttp://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraudhttp://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skepticshttp://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Perhaps at the level of an Homeopathy nitwit who thinks
he's refuted all of Homeopathy after reading a few books.

Agreed. All one has to do is read "High School Chemistry For Dummies"
to know that homeoquackery is a fraud.

Just one book.

[Peter Bowditch]

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by Mark Probert

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.
Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.
He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

I rank AIDS deniers just below anti-vaccination liars on the scale of
evil. It is never a surprise when the groups overlap.
Why do these people have this need to cause the deaths of other
people?
--

Perhaps at the level of an Homeopathy nitwit who thinks
he's refuted all of Homeopathy after reading a few books.

What is the homeopathic treatment for AIDS?

Which books have you read?

Post by Citizen Jimserac
Citizen Jimserac

[George Conklin]

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by Citizen Jimserac

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by Mark Probert

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.
Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.
He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

I rank AIDS deniers just below anti-vaccination liars on the scale of
evil. It is never a surprise when the groups overlap.
Why do these people have this need to cause the deaths of other
people?
--

Perhaps at the level of an Homeopathy nitwit who thinks
he's refuted all of Homeopathy after reading a few books.

What is the homeopathic treatment for AIDS?

PRAYER.

[Kevysmom]

Post by Mark Probert

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.
Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.
He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

Wow, how awful!!!! Just think Bayer Corporation was selling AIDS
tainted blood and is responsible for killing thousands of innocent
people!

[d***@insightbb.com]

Post by Mark Probert

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.
Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.
He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

This is about as bogus as it gets. Duesberg is a scientist and a
researcher. He does not treat patients.

DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

[D. C. Sessions]

Post by d***@insightbb.com

Post by Mark Probert

Post by JOHN
California at Berkeley molecular biologist Dr. Peter Duesberg

Duesberg is a know-nothing AIDS denialist. Years ago I attended a
seminar with a friend who is a surgical oncologist. Duesberg had
several of his patients who were "cured." My friend interrupted him
and pointed out that all of these patients had obvious Kaposi Sarcoma
lesions on their arms and face. They all looked like concentration
camp survivors.
Duesberg was outraged and demanded that we leave. Since it was a
public forum in a public arena, we stayed, and refuted whatever he
said.
He is a liar and kills people with his lies.

This is about as bogus as it gets. Duesberg is a scientist and a
researcher. He does not treat patients.

Presuming that this is supposed to be a refutation, you appear
to be saying that anyone who "is a scientist and a researcher"
cannot lie, and/or that the only way to kill people with a lie
is to directly treat patients.

Obvious historical counterexamples left as an exercise for the reader.